Corbyn: Hero or Disaster?

by Bobby_West on August 12, 2015

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It’s fair to say that the Labour leadership contest has caused some sharp differences of opinion among the All That’s Left team. We thought about each of us writing a separate piece for the blog but instead we’ve decided to go for full disclosure, Hilary Clinton style, with publication of our recent private email exchanges on the subject, warts and all. If nothing else, it gives you an idea of what we are actually doing at work.

Corbyn: hero of a new politics or catastrophic disaster – we can’t decide. Oh, and where have BA sent George’s pants?

—–Original Message—–
From: Charlie East-West
To: All That’s Left group
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 10:34
Subject: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

kerihw (@kerihw)
04/08/2015 19:26
Incredible scenes at this Jeremy Corbyn rally in Croydon. pic.twitter.com/OiK9hr98jO

From: Ray North
To: All That’s Left group
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 10:52
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

The Corbyn thing is bizarre!

From: Charlie East-West
To: All That’s Left Group
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 11:07
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

The Corbyn thing is pretty easy to understand. Here is someone with an alternative vision for Britain. One that is shared by many people on the left. Similar feel to what happened in Scotland last year.

But, what he is suggesting is not some sort of bat-shit crazy politics. It is considered progressive politics that offers an alternative to the Thatcherite model that Labour sleepwalked into.

His vision is something all of us actually agree with. Our articles on the blog through the years mirror a lot of what Corbyn has stated.

From: George East
To: All That’s Left Group
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 11:11
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

Still think that it is an epoch level mistake and probably the end of the Labour Party as a serious political force at a national level. It’s the left talking to itself. I appreciate that you and Ray disagree. I won’t vote for him in the leadership election not even as a low preference.
If I ever get my luggage here in Italy I’ll blog on it.

From: Ray North
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 11:24
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

I don’t necessarily disagree with you George – in fact you’re almost certainly right about the cataclysmic effect Corbyn will have on the Labour Party as we know it – i suppose me and Charlie are less bothered by that. It’s very interesting.

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 11:25
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

Jackie/George/Bobby – it would be good to get your side of the argument on Corbyn on ATL. One of the defining and pleasing characteristics of the blog is diversity of opinion even within the contributors.

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 11:29
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

I agree. There is also an argument that if say, Burnham or Cooper wins, it will also have a cataclysmic effect within the Labour Party membership. The Corbyn supporters will leave in the droves and probably set up a new party anyway.

Everything changed on the Welfare Bill. Burnham’s abstention may well be seen as the moment he threw away the leadership.

From: George East
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 11:32
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

They won’t – the labour left stays through thick and thin.

From: George East
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 11:35
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

Maybe so – but destroying the Labour Party is hardly a recipe for progressive change in England and Wales. The tories are rampant, yet they have a majority of 12. Labour embarking on a civil war or some kind of self-indulgent leftist swerve ain’t going to help anyone excerpt making a few activists feel better.

I will blog on it but at the moment I don’t even have a change of underwear let alone a laptop. Fucking BA.

From: Ray North
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 15:50
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

Do what you did in hackney mate – wear the same pair inside out!

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 11:53
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

Perhaps mate. Perhaps…

But, we have all argued long and hard on the blog that Labour was in danger of destroying itself anyway by appearing to be locked into a Tory echo chamber on austerity etc.

Considering the other three candidates all appear to be endorsing austerity, if any of them end up as leader, Labour will probably continue to offer no real alternative, be outflanked and therefore continue to be ideologically pointless for millions of people.

From: Jackie South
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 12:02
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

My problem is that, of the four, Corbyn is the one I would find hardest to watch at PMQs. I might agree with a lot of what he has to say but I think that would be carcrash territory.

I think that would result in many of those now vocal in support slining away in embarrassment as they treat Corbyn as their drunk party shag.

From: George East
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 12:13
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

Your second para sums it all up.

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 12:54
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

Well, it increasingly looks like he is going to win. After hearing a couple of speeches & interviews with him over the past week – his delivery and application of a coherent argument is miles ahead of the other three.

From: George East
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 12:58
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

We shall see. I still think 2nd prefs may prevent it.

From: Ray North
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 13:04
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

Yes – I think PMQs would be very strange – not least because we’d hear language we’ve never heard before. Cameron though would be in danger of appearing totally out of touch – his tendency is to patronise the left – it may well be that he’d be far more comfortable against Burnham.

But PMQs only resonate with the media in any event.

It’s so tricky this – but probably more tricky for you who has a clear and emotional attachment to labour and George who’s a member.

From: Jackie South
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 13:05
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

I’ll blog on this, as Charlie suggests, either tonight or tomorrow (probably the latter) along with analysis.

At the mo, Corbyn is my third choice, ahead of Kendall. Some of what she has said at least looks like it is being thoughtful, but I can’t support someone that is putting raising defence expenditure whilst supporting deep welfare cuts.

From: Jackie South
Sent: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 13:30
Subject: Re: Tweet by kerihw on Twitter

It is certainly true that PMQs in themselves probably don’t shift many votes and only resonate with the media. However, the coverage of a couple of carcrash PMQs certainly could help build an impression of someone who can’t hack it and that would feed through into a general perception.

From: Ray North
To: All That’s Left group
Sent: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 11:47
Subject: Cricket!!!

Bloody hell!
Aus 29-6!

On 10 Aug 2015, at 22:22, Bobby West wrote:
I’ve paid my £3 today just to help balance out all those Marxists and Tories that have been doing the same! Despite Charlie’s persuasiveness at the weekend over a couple of pints, don’t think Corbyn’s going to get my vote….

On 10 Aug 2015 at 21:25 Ray North wrote:

I’ve decided not to join until after the election – just doesn’t seem cricket somehow.

From: George East
Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 21:30
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

He’s not even getting a low preference from me.

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 21:34
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

If he wins, it is a 100% guaranteed locked in Labour vote from me on any election between now and 2020.

The right policies for this day and age. The alternative is just more watered down Thacherism.

On 10 Aug 2015, at 21:39, Bobby West wrote:
There’s the rub, watered down Thatcherism is much preferred to full throttle Thatcherism, and socialism and nationalising the commanding heights just doesn’t sound plausible and will leave us with the latter!

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 22:39
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

For me, it is simple. I am left wing, proud to be left wing, and happen to agree with the vast majority of his policies. I have no fucking idea what Cooper and Burnham stand for, and I don’t want to know what the fuck Kendall stands for.

From: Ray North
Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 23:12
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

But why would you join labour to vote for Andy Burnham or Yvette cooper or to stop Jeremy Corbyn? It makes no sense to me.

I have massive reservations about all of them – but only one seems to believe in something that is fundamentally different to what we’ve had over the last thirty years (with, perhaps the exception of 97-2001).

From: Bobby West
Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 23:27
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

Cause ultimately to stop the Tories you need a strong Labour Party and personally I think Corbyn leadership will swiftly result in labours polling going down not up…other candidates are not inspiring to say the least but there is a real risk that Corbyn could be catastrophic. Would like to believe otherwise but don’t.

On 11 Aug 2015, at 00:34, Bobby West wrote:

Also I just don’t buy this nonsense that labour in government were no different to Tories. Utter bollocks. Iraq was a disaster and they were too authoritarian generally but on social policy and investment in public services massive progress was made. The Tories are now undoing it, not least the redistribution created by tax credits. To say labour is just the same, and would be the same, whatever the frustrations about their position on the deficit is rubbish.

From: George East
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 7:07
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

Yes exactly that – and if you don’t get anywhere near power it’s just the left talking to each other and feeling morally righteous. Corbyn is a disaster for Labour of epic proportions. It’s like putting the LSE labour club in charge.

From: Ray North
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 7:22
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

We can argue about the psephology and the history of labour until the cows come home – it’s completely missing the point of what is going on – the Corbyn surge, for better or worse, is a spontaneous articulation by those on the left (and others) against the inherent unfairness of austerity and the phoniness of Westminster – I totally agree that it is flawed on many levels and really dangerous – but it’s far more significant than lefty posturing and to ignore it or dismiss it is akin to saying the only politics I accept is the status quo.

From: George East
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 7:30
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

But it’s an exercise in mass masturbation if it has no wider resonance with the electorate. How many people are we talking about voting here – a couple of hundred thousand at the most. This is a recipe for Labour getting 20% in 2020 and a Tory 100 seat plus majority with all that means.

On 11 Aug 2015, at 08:46, Bobby West wrote:

Precisely

Whereas just a thousand or so votes swinging the right way for Labour would remove Tory majority in 2020. Admit prospect of Labour majority unlikely under any leader in 2020 but relatively easy to neuter them and start setting some of the agenda.

From: George East
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 7:49
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

Yep – they have a majority of 12 FFS and divisions there waiting to be exploited. Lab can potentially head a progressive coalition in 2020 if it gets its act together but electing Corbyn is just going to lead to 5 years of infighting and unelectable policies. Labour didn’t lose in England in May because it failed to promise to nationalise the commanding heights of the economy.

On 11 Aug 2015, at 07:06, George East wrote:

Yes exactly that – and if you don’t get anywhere near power it’s just the left talking to each other and feeling morally righteous. Corbyn is a disaster for Labour of epic proportions. It’s like putting the LSE labour club in charge.

From: Ray North
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 8:16
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

You’re still missing the point – Labour members don’t appear to be interested in another centrist, dull leader offering policies that will appeal to or be understood by very few – nor are they thinking about the political machinations of the next five years – they’re simply expressing their exasperation – and you can’t fuck with that. It’s why I’m not joining – I’m letting the Labour Party get in with it and seeing what happens.

You mention LSE Labour club – but actually New Labour was a response to that kind of nonsense and has never shaken that off.

Politics has to be about more than just seeking power it has to stand for something.

From: George East
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 8:22
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

If you think nothing would be different with a labour pm you haven’t been paying attention. Even Liz Kendall would be several significant notches to the left of the current government as her policy statements make clear. Similarly the 1997-2010 government.

If you don’t have power then it doesn’t matter a shit what your policies are. You can be as pure as you like but ultimately it’s a talking shop which does little more than make lefties feel good about themselves for not selling out.

Corbyn is a reversion to the Foot era without his intellect or organised Labour to provide a base for that kind of politics. It’s the politics of student marched – ineffectual and ultimately narcissistic.

I’m down the line ABC

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 8:35
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

I completely agree with Ray’s last comments. Spot on.

Similar movement for change sprung out of Scotland since the referendum.

Due to the busted flush nature of neoliberalism since 2008, the country may well be ready to listen to an alternative ideology. Of the 4 candidates, only Corbyn can offer that.

Labour’s problem since 2010, has been a sleepwalking towards the Tory agenda rather than walking away from it – austerity is a perfect example of this. They have been outflanked and out of office because they are NOT offering substantial points of difference to the Tories. The Corbyn surge is because something different IS being offered.

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 8:38
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

Also – Corbyn could potentially unite the left elsewhere because he has a bigger base to work from – possible anti austerity / anti Tory alliances with PC, LD, Green and SNP.

From: George East
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 8:50
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

There’s precisely zero evidence so far as I can see that Corbyn’s views resonate with anything other than a bunch of leftists and Twitter activists.

Corbyn 2020 will make Foot’s performance in 1983 look like a Labour landslide.

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 8:54
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

We have all consistently supported Podemos, Syriza et al on the blog for some time now. We have also called for a left wing movement (ideally within Labour) to be developed. Now a similar left wing Corbyn surge is happening, you are criticising it….with respect, I not sure I get that mate.

From: Ray North
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 9:06
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

I have to say I’m really enjoying this debate (shame it’s not taking place in a pub somewhere, or perhaps not…) – but one thing it does demonstrate is just how fucked those of us on the left currently are – what with you and Bobby proposing pretty much more of the same only with a slightly less interesting leader than the one who lost in May, and Charlie proposing someone who’s policies probably mean he’s unelectable, me hoping for some kind of populist uprising and Jackie, well, I think Jackie is currently sitting in a dark room with his head in his hands hoping it will all go away.

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 8:35
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

I completely agree with Ray’s last comments. Spot on.

Similar movement for change sprung out of Scotland since the referendum.

Due to the busted flush nature of neoliberalism since 2008, the country may well be ready to listen to an alternative ideology. Of the 4 candidates, only Corbyn can offer that.

Labour’s problem since 2010, has been a sleepwalking towards the Tory agenda rather than walking away from it – austerity is a perfect example of this. They have been outflanked and out of office because they are NOT offering substantial points of difference to the Tories. The Corbyn surge is because something different IS being offered.

On 11 Aug 2015, at 09:40, Bobby West wrote:

I believe the biggest reason Labour are out of power – or more to the point the Tories are in power – is because Miliband was not PM material and the successful Tory campaign scaremongering about a left wing SNP running the show. Hard to see how Corbyn is the answer to either of those problems.

Admittedly Scotland is different and was voting for different reasons but we need to work on the assumption that most of Scotland is lost to Labour for at least one more election but probably more.

From: Jackie South
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 9:50
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

Spot on Bobby (he says from his dark room!)

From: Ray North
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:23
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

Yes – but, that’s still missing the point – labour could elect Andy Cooper or Yvette Burnham breath a big breathe of relief and meander happily towards 2020 – they’ll score a few points in parliament, the Tories will have a few problems over Europe and the economy will be in a state that will enable the Tories to say that everything is peachy.

Then regardless, there will be new issues which in the absence of something tangible and positive will enable voters to say, either, they’re all the same I’m voting green/UKIP/SNP etc, or I’m voting Tory because I don’t trust labour. I am just as concerned about Corbyn and take all your points but I’m far more enthused by what he is saying than the saccharine inanities of the modern Labour Party and the usual Westminster cobblers.

From: George East
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:31
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

But there is zero evidence that it resonates wider than leftist activists and armchair internet warriors. If it doesn’t it’s just an echo chamber.

And it’s not about enthusing you – it’s about enthusing the voters in Nuneaton and Bolton W and Southampton Itchen that labour failed to in May. FPTP means that’s how it is. A Labour Party in office can do stuff; one out of office can do nothing. Seriously Kendall is a better option than Corbyn because at least she is imaginable as PM.

Labour will descend into civil war, the Tories will run rampant and Corbyn will look more than a little ridiculous very very quickly as many of his policies prove to be utopian absurdities . He didn’t expect this and he’s no more prepared to be leader of the opposition than I am. The rhetoric of student leftism is an easy refuge when you are a hard left serially rebellious backbencher – not so much when you are the supposed head of a government in waiting.

Is there really a single seat in E&W that labour would win that it doesn’t already have with Corbyn in charge? I doubt it very much. There are plenty OTOH they could potentially lose.

There is absolutely no sense out there that people are crying out for a Syriza or Podemos (both born out of 50%+ youth unemployment and in Greece’s case grinding austerity).

If Corbyn is leader Labour are just another protest group and David Cameron is the happiest man in Britain.

From: Ray North
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:54
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

To be fair there’s not a huge amount of evidence suggesting that the nation is crying out for cooper or burnham either. I agree that the Labour Party with Corbyn at the helm will be fractious and a bit of a mess, however, a Labour Party with cooper or burnham will be worthy and dull.

You say that it’s not about enthusing me, and of course you’re right – but therein lies the complex dichotomy at the heart of democracy: if I wanted to look after number 1, I’d vote Tory, if I profess to believe in anything I’ll take the Corbyn surge seriously and ask myself the question – where is this going and his can it be harnessed to bring about the stuff I want to see – IMHO we just can’t ignore it or dismiss it, to do so is to potentially miss a unique opportunity. It’s fascinating.

From: George East
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:07
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

I don’t disagree with your first para – but the Corbyn appeal is supposed to be a ‘new kind of politics’ inspiring voters with its authenticity and radicalism etc etc. That pre-supposes that there is any appetite for that among anyone other than the lefty activist base who are currently driving him towards the leadership. Of which evidence there is none. Burnham and Cooper may be dull but they are both at least plausible PMs (even if I think that’s a bit of a stretch for Burnham he’s much more easy to envisage in that role than Corbyn).

> On 11 Aug 2015, at 13:18, Bobby West wrote:

I think ‘fractious and a bit of a mess’ is a big understatement. I think that’s why I feel so strongly about it – Corbyn as leader wouldn’t just be a bit tricksy it could be catastrophic and near fatalfor Labour. Way too big a risk.

From: George East
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:19
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

Yep – ABC all the way.

From: Ray North
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:23
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

Ok – here’s another question: what do rational left of centre types do if Corbyn is elected?

From: George East
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:46
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

Some will drift away, some will stay. It’s the rational and irrational
disengaged voters I’m concerned about.

From: Jackie South
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:10
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

They should support Corbyn as leader and try to suspend their disbelief.

Whether they do or not remains to be seen, and I tend to agree with Bobby that “a bit fractious” is likely to be masterly understatement.

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:24
Subject: Re: He’s not wrong

Corbyn has a massive lead in the polls. It looks like he is going to win. So, as such, we had all better get behind him. Welcome to a battle of hearts and minds between neoliberalism v socialism. This is a battle that I welcome. About bloody time too.

On 12 Aug 2015, at 07:29, Ray North wrote:

I know we did this to death yesterday but on Monday night there were 500 people at a Corbyn rally in Llandudno, people were outside the hall apparently. That’s 500 people listening to a beardy fella telling them his there might be an alternative to austerity. No spin doctors , no carefully chosen questions , no clappers, no limited hand picked audience – I’m sorry but you can’t fuck with that.
>
Can’t simply dismiss this.

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 8:08
Subject: Re: More Corbyn

Exactly. It is happening everywhere. The surge is more than an echo chamber. The surge is galvanising disenfranchised voters. Considering only 25% of the electorate voted Tory – that could be quite a lot of potential new voters.

From: George East
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 8:38
Subject: Re: More Corbyn

It’s going to be an utter car wreck for all the reasons discussed yesterday. If I can get my head out of a load of work shit (even though I’m on holiday) I’ll try to blog on it later.

I agree with Bobby that this could be near fatal or even fatal for Labour.

That sound of laughing you hear is Cameron and Osborne rubbing their hands with glee.

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 8:54
Subject: Re: More Corbyn

The biggest problem is the internal rows within Labour. But, the wider public – it presents a risky but huge potential opportunity.

Basically, all bets are off. None of us have any idea whether it will work or not. It is all speculation and assumptions.

On 12 Aug 2015, at 09:55, Bobby West wrote:

I agree it can’t all be completely ignored and clearly we all want politicians to stop bullshitting and calculating every move, but still not convinced that this is part of some wider national movement that will sweep the country towards socialism. Worth noting that about half of the £3 sign-ups aren’t putting Corbyn first preference, and Corbyn’s highest figures are among the Trade Union affiliated sign ups…

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:08
Subject: Re: More Corbyn

Fair points. But, the only way in which we will get genuine change is to get a leader how is willing to create change.

From what I have seen and heard, only Corbyn gives an opportunity towards a different way in which politics is developed in this country. I absolutely despair about Cooper and Burnham. They are no different to the Orange bookers within the Lib Dems. It is all a neoliberal game to these robotic politicians.

If Burnham or Cooper ends up as Labour leader, Labour will probably be in exactly the same situation in 2020 as Miliband was in 2015. Zero charisma. Confused thinking. No credible points of difference. Lack of core messages. Completely outflanked by the Tories = public apathy.

Yes, Corbyn is a risk, but he has a clear set of principles that a
lot of people appear to be relating to – including myself. It is a risk worth taking. The country desperately needs a progressive alternative vision. Out of the 4 candidates, only Corbyn offers that. IMHO.

From: George East
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:18
Subject: Re: More Corbyn

I’m voting Kendall above Corbyn.

It’s the politics of student protest without any wider resonance that I can see. There are no parallels to Greece or Spain (that’s just wishful thinking). Where are the mass protests or wide spread civil disobedience which suggest that there is a mass out there ready to be tapped.

I really despair at this – it is lefty self-indulgence at its worst. 100,000 happy activists does not an election winning force make.

Of course authenticity is refreshing and yes the other candidates are lacklustre and uninspiring but when it comes down to it PM Corbyn is a conceptual impossibility. Foot without the brains.

From: George East
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:25
Subject: Re: More Corbyn

I really do think that this is going to be the worst decision a major party has made in the post-war period on its leader – worse than IDS, worse than Thorpe. Epoch makingly terrible – resulting in labour civil war and the Tories in power for a generation.

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:36
Subject: Re: More Corbyn

Not sure about that.

There is no fucking way that a Corbyn-led Labour will end up with only 8 MPs. Clegg did that to the Lib Dems.

From: Jackie South
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:41
Subject: Re: More Corbyn

The IDS parallel is a strong one: leader speaking to the passionate wing of the party who as formally a massive rebel could not have the authority to maintain discipline in the parliamentary party. We wait to see if he can perform better in the cut-and-thrust of debate as leader.

Interesting to see that Cooper voted against Trident from your earlier post, James!

And good spot on the polling numbers, Bobby. The advantage to the party’s right on the old system of union voting is that they could bargain with the TU leaders for votes or endorsements to contain the left.

My probable order hasn’t changed for a month or so now: Cooper-Burnham-Corbyn-Kendall (I really can’t support her)

From: George East
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:46
Subject: Re: More Corbyn

I’m no more going to vote for Corbyn than I would entryist paper sellers – its self-indulgenct craziness. And for all Kendall’s flaws she is at least imaginable as PM

Corbyn is just about imaginable as NUS President in the mid-1980s. Anything else not so much

From: Charlie East-West
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:37
Subject: Re: More Corbyn

George – What set of policies do you want the next Labour leader to offer the country?

From: Ray North
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:34
Subject: Re: More Corbyn

I think I know what his answer to that one will be Charlie: ‘ones that have a realistic chance of being implemented’. I’m also hoping to blog on this later – though the blog needs the alternative view.

On 12 Aug 2015, at 15:05, Bobby West wrote:

We should just publish our email exchanges on it. Perhaps without the bit earlier in the week about George’s pants…

{ 3 comments… read them below or add one }

Mike Killingworth August 13, 2015 at 10:13 am

Bless you all.

I remember JC from the Hornsey Labour Party in the late 1970s. At that time he was
* encouraging IMG entryism;
* supporting the IRA and denouncing as fascists those of who didn’t;
* opposing all forms of immigration control as racist.

In short, the only morally acceptable white heterosexual male was JC himself and those who worshipped him. Nothing that I have seen in his campaign suggests to me that he has changed one iota.

That doesn’t worry me, What worries me is the mentality of those attending his rallies, and the utter ineptitude of Burnham and Cooper – Kendall is, of course, a Tory in disguise.

Reply

John Stone August 14, 2015 at 7:31 am

Yes, whatever you think of JC, it’s the poverty of ideas elsewhere that has enabled the current situation. Most of Labour has quite simply forgotten what it’s for. Cowed and cautious from the assault of the right wing media, it simply doesn’t know how to respond. Burnham and Cooper have both run hopeless campaigns. And threatening splits is utter nonsense – do these people understand nothing about democracy. The thing that concerns me about JC is his baggage. I hope if he wins the party has the grace to let him reset the agenda somewhat before standing aside. I can’t see him fighting an election.

Reply

Witchfinder General August 15, 2015 at 8:48 am

Corbynism

Its like a sky dive on a sunny day……the day you forget to pack your parachute

Reply

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